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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject: BMW Switchgear |
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My electric screen switch on the K1600 is playing up.
The switch cluster was changed 9 months ago as the high beam switch failed.
I have been told that because I am 8 days out of warrenty I have to pay for a new switch cluster.
The switch cluster is only 9 months old, I think that I have a case for it to be changed as it must have been a sub standard item.
Battle commences.
My experience so far shows that I will lose.
However if that happens BMW will lose. I will never buy another and make sure I pursuade as many people as possible to do the same.
Ho yes and I know its my fault for having such a complicated bike with Can-Bus electronics. Next stop simplicity. Triumph 1200 Explorer? _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Triumphs like many modern bikes use CAN-Bus too...
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Directive 1999/44/EC, May 1999 from the European Parliament stipulates that by 1st January 2002 all member states must have altered their legislation to comply with new consumer laws. These new laws will ensure that all new consumer goods, including cars, carry at least a two-year warranty AND used consumer goods have a minimum of a one-year warranty.
The EU is concerned that consumers are given a high level of consumer protection. This applies not only to transactions by persons acting in the course of a business but also to transactions by private individuals. It implies that consumers living in one country of the EU should be free to purchase goods in another territory of the EU on the basis of a uniform minimum of fair rules governing the sale of consumer goods. Apart from strengthening consumer protection the Directive will also improve the development of sale of goods via “medium and long distance communication technologies” (the Internet in other words). The legislation seeks to unify the disparate laws throughout the EU such as the English Sales of Goods Act (Scottish Law is slightly different).
The EU recognises that consumers have two key problems when purchasing goods. Firstly that the goods they buy conform to contractual specifications and secondly consumers are protected where there is no specific contractual arrangement or where there has been an attempt to waive or restrict these rights by the seller.
The Directive applies to
· any defective movable consumer product
· any seller, that is to say any person who, under a contract, sells consumer goods in the course of their trade, profession or business
· a producer, meaning the manufacturer of consumer goods, the importation of goods or any other person who purports to be a producer by virtue of their name, brand or other distinctive sign
The directive calls for
· a guarantee of at least 2 years for new goods (or longer if the MemberState wishes) where the seller will undertake without extra charge to reimburse the price paid or to replace and/or repair consumer goods if they do not meet the specifications set out in the guarantee statement or relevant advertising.
· a guarantee of at least one year for used goods (except those sold by a private seller)
The goods must
· comply with the description given by the seller and posses the same qualities and characteristics as other similar goods
· be fit for the purpose which the consumer requires them and which was made known to the seller at the time of purchase.
· are fit for the purpose for which goods of the same type are used
· show the same quality and performance, which are normal in goods of the same type and which consumers can reasonably expect. This will also take into account any public statements made about the specific characteristics of the goods by the producer, seller or in their advertising.
Exceptions will only be allowed if it can be shown that the seller could not reasonably have known about any defect (or “lack of conformity”) beforehand or that the buyer should have reasonably known about a defect (or “lack of conformity”) beforehand.
If a defect appears during the first six months following purchase the consumer will not have to prove the product was defective at the moment of delivery. The onus will be on the seller to prove the product was without defect. A consumer will have up to two months following the discovery of the fault to inform the seller. If a defect becomes apparent within the two, or one year, period depending on the type of goods, then the consumer has the right to choose a remedy using the following hierarchy. They can
· Demand repair or replacement within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience. (Free of charge repair refers to the necessary costs to bring the goods “back to conformity”)
· If this is impossible, unproportionate or cannot be done within a reasonable time or without significant inconvenience then the consumer can demand a price reduction or can rescind the contract (though not if the defect is minor)
All these rights are free of charge to the customer.
Sellers will have to set out in plain intelligible language the contents of the guarantee and the essential information necessary to make a claim under the guarantee. This information will have to include the duration and scope of the guarantee as well as the name and address of the guarantor. On request the consumer can demand a written guarantee or it may be sent in another durable medium accessible to them. If the guarantee infringes the requirements of the law then the validity of the guarantee will not be affected and the consumer can still rely on the guarantee being honoured.
Sale of Goods Act
Dealers and manufacturers usually repair or replace faulty components under warranty. The Sale of Goods Act does not legally oblige them to so. The Directive stipulates that from 2001 repair or replacement will become a legal liability for UK sellers of new goods. Consumers will also have the right to financial compensation.
Warranties on cars
Manufacturers are almost certainly going to increase their new car warranties to three years and, eventually the balance of the manufacturers warranty will cover the sales of nearly new cars. All other used cars will however need to be covered by a minimum of a one-year warranty that meets the requirement of the EU Directive and the new legislation.
The warranty will need to be written in clear terms, be transparent in setting out the obligations of the consumer (e.g. regular servicing in line with the manufacturers schedules) and be described correctly to consumers whether verbally or in dealers marketing material. Dealers who currently carry out only the most perfunctory of checks at pre-sale will find themselves under the scrutiny of the Trading Standards Office and, of course, knowledgeable consumers demanding their rights. Reputable dealers will, of course, see the new legislation as a marketing opportunity and a way to build trust with their customer base.
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www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Theres me typing the words Can-Bus as If I know what the hell I am talking about.
Might as well be black majic.
I want a battery, a fuse, a switch, a load and an earth. I can fix that. _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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Tango Sicknote - The Prophet Of Doom
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 Posts: 5854 Location: Looking for a + 10 @ Rising :-0
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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If this is not in Duncan's post ( far to ) to trawl through that lot ..
As far as I know .... uk consumer law says anything purchased should be fit for the purpose for up to six years from date of sale... your sale of goods contract is not with BMW but the company that you purchased from.
Had the same problem when the water pump went on my XTYAM a month past the warranty.
Woking yamaha tried to tell me Yamaha uk would not pay for repair,s, but backed down when I quoted the above. Hope that is of some help. _________________
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Nuclear Red wrote: | Theres me typing the words Can-Bus as If I know what the hell I am talking about.
Might as well be black majic.
I want a battery, a fuse, a switch, a load and an earth. I can fix that. |
CAN Bus is "controller area network" essentially, all the devices on one network have an address and sit on one wire... the ECU responsible for those controls handles the signals from each of them and then turns things on accordingly, such as a updown motor on a screen.
A switch is a switch and regardless of it being CAN-BUS or not contact failure after such a short period of time is unacceptable, end of. Motorcycle switchgear should not fail within 3 years let alone 2.
You should reasonable expect that a defect like this should not develop on a £16,000 (????) motorcycle in just over 2 years. _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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to add to that, part of the problem with low signal level technolgy such as CAN-BUS is that as the current being switched is negligable, contacts have more tendancy to oxidise & cause reliability issues... higher currents of traditional systems keep contacts clean by arcing a bit. _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Cheers guys.
Seeing the service dept at Bahnstormers in Alton next week.
I had a CB900 once, never went wrong blah blah blah etc etc, good old days etc etc blah blah. _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Nuclear Red wrote: | Cheers guys.
Seeing the service dept at Bahnstormers in Alton next week.
I had a CB900 once, never went wrong blah blah blah etc etc, good old days etc etc blah blah. |
Would you like me to abuse them via Twitter etc for you?
I've found that a good way of getting problems resolved these days... _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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No thanks!
Want to be nice first, nasty later.
I also want to get it fixed before the Scotland trip with Moriwaki so I have got both Vines and Bahstormers on the case.
Neither will order a part until they see the bike unless I have paid for an after market warrenty. The warrenty does not cover switchgear (funny that), Vines were booked three weeks ahead, Iam in Bahstormers next week (Doha allowing)
Interestingly BMW forums are stuffed with faulty switchgear issues on K13's K16's and S1000's
BMW's reaction seems to be denial. _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Any joy NR? _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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In at Vines next week.
I am resigned to paying. _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Nuclear Red wrote: | In at Vines next week.
I am resigned to paying. |
ffs...
Write to BBC Watchdog... they love a story like that, there are plenty of other disgruntled owners out there too! _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Tusky Pie Dipper
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 11549
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Did you not extend the warranty?
I've got a K1600GTL out on loan at the moment as the driveshaft on the GS is being done under Warranty..... Strange how I feel the need to have the audio blasting out Classic FM each time I ride through Sevenoaks high street
Bloody good radio... Wish the one in the car sounded that good _________________ Boxhill Chippendales
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: |
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The extended warrenty does not include switchgear. They obviously know something is going on.
I dont use the radio. I find
1. I need all my brainpower to ride, the music seems to use up some of it.
2. I feel a knob when uncool tunes blast out! _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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Tusky Pie Dipper
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 11549
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Nuclear Red wrote: | The extended warrenty does not include switchgear. They obviously know something is going on.
I dont use the radio. I find
1. I need all my brainpower to ride, the music seems to use up some of it.
2. I feel a knob when uncool tunes blast out! |
2. I am a knob or so I am told and Classic FM sorts out the uncool tunes situation, so sorted
That's ridiculous on the switchgear.... How is that justified, it is hardly a wearing part.... I really would kick off at Vines, in my experience, Coopers would be more accommodating than that and would certainly put up a battle on their clients behalf.
Regarding the K1600, if I'm honest I didn't expect to like the bike but I must admit, it does shift and I am more than a bit smitten with certain aspects _________________ Boxhill Chippendales
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I am giving the Vines warrenty man a hard time, i think I may end up paying the labour ad not the parts.
Its interesting that you like the bike, which bits are you enjoying the most?
I find the engine just so smooth and powerfull but kind of difficult to get off the line quickly, like theres not enough flywheel.
Gearchanges can be perfect or graunchy, it seems fairly random.
I forget its so big when I ride it, I have done lots of filtering so I dont think its wider than other bikes.
I still want my Tuono back though... _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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They are keeping the bike in for observation overnight (its got those little tubes going up its nostrils/headlights), its getting new tyres as well, getting prepared for Moriwakis Scotland trip and are now talking about.
1. They fit a new switch cluster all free of charge. No more warrenty on that part.
or
2. We go half each and they will warrenty the switch for two years.
I am waiting for the quote but I like the sound of 2. _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Nuclear Red wrote: | They are keeping the bike in for observation overnight (its got those little tubes going up its nostrils/headlights), its getting new tyres as well, getting prepared for Moriwakis Scotland trip and are now talking about.
1. They fit a new switch cluster all free of charge. No more warrenty on that part.
or
2. We go half each and they will warrenty the switch for two years.
I am waiting for the quote but I like the sound of 2. |
Given the history I'd plump for 2 personally... is this a dealer offer or BMW themselves? _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Carnage British Superbike Racer
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 Posts: 1432
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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id be asking why is it that if the switch isn't under warranty in the first place that they are now able to offer a 2 year warranty on it now...something stinks _________________ Rust is lighter than carbon fibre! |
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Tusky Pie Dipper
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 11549
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Nuclear Red wrote: |
Its interesting that you like the bike, which bits are you enjoying the most?
I find the engine just so smooth and powerfull but kind of difficult to get off the line quickly, like theres not enough flywheel.
Gearchanges can be perfect or graunchy, it seems fairly random.
I forget its so big when I ride it, I have done lots of filtering so I dont think its wider than other bikes.
I still want my Tuono back though... |
At first I thought it was a bit of a barge but once I gave it some stick on the lanes it was very planted and super smooth.
I didn't find it slow off the line at all but I was usually 3000-4000 off the line .... Interesting difference between Dynamic and Wet modes.... Did the usual and started in rain/rain and rain/road but dynamic/dynamic was very in impressive on fast stretches of the A21....
Once I got used to the low centre of gravity and gained the confidence that I was not going to lay it down, I actually found it much easier than the GS to manoeuvre around the drive and parking bays etc. As for pillion... Well it's a sofa with a heated seat really....
Interesting what you say about the transmission, I had it slip out of gear twice and there was the odd jerky clonk here and there.
I don't know if you are aware but BMW are doing a total recall on older K1600's with defective gearboxes.
23007721500 - TRANSMISSION
23007721500 was superseded by 23008531100.
- There is a new part number for the transmission (complete assembly).
Here is the link to the court decision in New Zealand:
http://www.nzlii.org/cgi-bin/sinodisp/nz/cases/NZMVDT/2012/126.html?query=chris%20bmw _________________ Boxhill Chippendales
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:39 am Post subject: |
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MrE wrote: | id be asking why is it that if the switch isn't under warranty in the first place that they are now able to offer a 2 year warranty on it now...something stinks |
The "not covered by warranty" was I think in relation to the optional extended warranty. Correct me if I am wrong NR?? _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Tusky wrote: | impressive on fast stretches of the A21.... |
That's all of the A21 isn't it
Couple of years ago, I had a 'Wing for a weekend, what a fecking tool that is, I've yet to ride ze beemer, but can't see it being wildly different. There's something quite civilised about carving up Welsh twisties on a motorised sofa listening to Radio 2 chasing people on sportsbikes _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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HCMS Slack Alice/Gay Martian
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 3794 Location: Scratching head at Tusky's hairpin racing line
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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biggus wrote: |
Couple of years ago, I had a 'Wing for a weekend, what a fecking tool I felt, I've yet to ride ze beemer, but can't see it being wildly different. There's something quite embarrassing about carving up Welsh twisties on a motorised sofa listening to Radio 2 blocking the whole road and ruining the ride for people on sportsbikes |
Hmm... _________________ It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams.
No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.
100 Mile Cycle for Macmillan on 4th August 13. Please donate if you can!
http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/PeterSnell |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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HCMS wrote: | biggus wrote: |
Couple of years ago, I had a 'Wing for a weekend, what a fecking tool I felt, I've yet to ride ze beemer, but can't see it being wildly different. There's something quite embarrassing about carving up Welsh twisties on a motorised sofa listening to Radio 2 blocking the whole road and ruining the ride for people on sportsbikes |
Hmm... |
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www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Tusky Pie Dipper
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 11549
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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biggus wrote: | HCMS wrote: | biggus wrote: |
Couple of years ago, I had a 'Wing for a weekend, what a fecking tool I felt, I've yet to ride ze beemer, but can't see it being wildly different. There's something quite embarrassing about carving up Welsh twisties on a motorised sofa listening to Radio 2 blocking the whole road and ruining the ride for people on sportsbikes |
Hmm... |
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biggus wrote: | Tusky wrote: | impressive on fast stretches of the A21.... |
That's all of the A21 isn't it
Couple of years ago, I had a 'Wing for a weekend, what a fecking tool that is, I've yet to ride ze beemer, but can't see it being wildly different. There's something quite civilised about carving up Welsh twisties on a motorised sofa listening to Radio 2 chasing people on sportsbikes |
Absolutely Well worth taking one for a spin to compare.... _________________ Boxhill Chippendales
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. |
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