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JimBo Pedantic Cnut
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 5394
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:21 am Post subject: Rider "aids" |
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Like most motorcyclists I drool over the latest offerings, none of which I can afford. I plump for bikes like the Tuono, KTM 1290 and S1000R as I like being naked. Others will go for different styles of bike - all good.
Most of my desirables come with rider aids like ABS, traction control, ant-wheelie, anti-rear wheel lift , launch control, quick shifters etc, etc. However, I've just read the write up of the new Z1000 and, looks aside, I'm strangely attracted to it even though it has none of the above.
It seems to me that a bike that you control completely is probably a more "engaging" ride. I know the argument for rider aids is that it could save you from an accident, possibly a fatal one. But do we not all weigh up risk and benefit in many aspects of our lives? I personally do not wear a helmet when cycling but I'm aware of the possible dangers.
One big factor in all of this is cost. The Z1000, Speed Triple, Monster 100 and others are much, much cheaper than those above, but are still excellent motorcycles.
One last thing. Are we going to see accident investigators and insurance companies claiming "contributory negligence" because you didn't have any of the above when they are available. There have been a number of cases where this very thing has happened in cycling incidents.
Thoughts? _________________ So many roads, so little time. |
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biggus illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 31748 Location: Hotel California
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Interesting points Jimbo. I know from my recent experience with Barristers that they pick up on points that are utterly irrelevant for weighting of liability.
Anti lock/wheelie/rear wheel lift/etc are not save alls. That said modern systems are so unintrusive that you would not know they were there. Sure ABS chatters if you brake so hard as to start to lock up. I can count on one hand in 45000 odd miles on my ABS equipped Pan the number of times it's kicked in and I'd happily dismiss half of those to me deliberately provoking it and the others for a split second on mud/gravel.
Given the choice of two identical models with the option of ABS I would possibly choose if buying new to spend a few more quid on the ABS equipped one, but that would not be the decision maker between one model and the next... a part of that decision would be resale -ie buy a base model car with keep fit windows then struggle to sell it as the second hand market expects all the toys (been there done that). Ultimately, I would buy the bike I wanted rather than opening the garage and wishing I'd bought another model.
In terms of contributory negligence I think that would only be a potential issue if there was an ABS version of the bike you purchased and again that would only become a possible issue in a really serious case I would have thought.
Anyone who thinks they are beyond ABS is most likely seriously deluded, or answers to 'Valentino Rossi' or 'Marc Márquez' .
Just buy the bike you WANT and JRTFT _________________
www.bigguspicus.co.uk
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
There are II types of people in the world: those who understand Roman numerals and those who don't.
98% of all Harleys ever sold are still on the road. The other 2% made it home |
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Flintstone Del Boy Deer Hunter
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 3988 Location: .........in another world !
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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When you said you like being naked Jimbo I assume you meant the bike and not you ? I prefer naked bikes for the riding position and the look of the bike. I hate all of these extras on vehicles as it means there is more to go wrong. Don't think you will have the choice in the future as it will all be standard. I'm sure though that ABS makes the brakes a little spongy but because the brakes are so good it doesn't make a lot of difference ? _________________ It's all down to quality of life ! |
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JimBo Pedantic Cnut
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 5394
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: |
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biggus wrote: | Interesting points Jimbo. I know from my recent experience with Barristers that they pick up on points that are utterly irrelevant for weighting of liability. |
I think liability and consequence are sometimes mixed up. Level of compensation has sometimes been reduced for cyclists because they were not wearing a helmet. But they would have no injuries if the driver who hit them hadn't been on their mobile! Surely the deciding factor should be were you within the law, e. g. not wearing a seat belt?
biggus wrote: | Anti lock/wheelie/rear wheel lift/etc are not save alls. |
Absolutely, and that was my point when I said "engaging".
biggus wrote: | In terms of contributory negligence I think that would only be a potential issue if there was an ABS version of the bike you purchased and again that would only become a possible issue in a really serious case I would have thought. |
But you are thinking rationally there, rather than about increasing/decreasing any possible compensation!
biggus wrote: | Anyone who thinks they are beyond ABS is most likely seriously deluded, or answers to 'Valentino Rossi' or 'Marc Márquez' .
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Again agreed, but I think I'm more like Jorge Lorenzo!
biggus wrote: | Just buy the bike you WANT and JRTFT |
There's the rub, WANT and CAN are mutually exclusive at the moment.
Flintstone wrote: | When you said you like being naked Jimbo I assume you meant the bike and not you ? |
Both Fred, but not (so far) at the same time
Flintstone wrote: | I prefer naked bikes for the riding position and the look of the bike. |
Same here, especially the position.
Flintstone wrote: | Don't think you will have the choice in the future as it will all be standard. |
Agreed. In fact there will probably be an EU directive soon!
Flintstone wrote: | I'm sure though that ABS makes the brakes a little spongy but because the brakes are so good it doesn't make a lot of difference ? |
Biggus and you disagree there then. But I see your point about not making a great difference.
I suppose the only way I'm going to find out what best suits me is to buy a bike with all the whistles, try it with everything switched on, then try it with everything switched off!
As long as I keep my brain switched on which, at the end of the day, is surely the best rider "aid". _________________ So many roads, so little time. |
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Nuclear Red Speedway Rider
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 519
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I have never used ABS on the front only on the back. When i crashed my K1200RS I could have braked harder but didnt seem to be able to trust the ABS to stop the front locking.
I have used rear ABS a number of times and also traction control on my K1600 a couple of times coming out of wet roundabouts.
I prefer to have them rather than not. I think wet roads in the dark with a panic braking may be the time I would use front ABS.
I think I need to get a bit of dry road and really learn maximum braking forces that can be used. _________________ Blue smoke and a ring ding ding |
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Sharky TT Racer
Joined: 06 Dec 2009 Posts: 1163 Location: At bloody work probably!
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Nuclear Red wrote: | I think I need to get a bit of dry road and really learn maximum braking forces that can be used. |
+1. My FZ1 has ABS but i haven't had the balls to brake hard enough to test it yet!
While we're on Rider aids... Probably not tecnically an aid, but heated grips are the dogs bollocks in this weather! Never had them before.... would never be without them now!! _________________ Not man enough for an R1....... FZ1's are cooler anyway |
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