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Taz
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 Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:22 pm Post subject: Death Penalty |
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Bring back for murder or not?
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Last edited by Taz on Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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biggus
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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It's not gone... I thought you could still hang for treason?
Which is exactly why anti terror laws should be changed to "treason" 
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The Mouse
Forum Ferry Spotter
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm going to vote no on this one and yes on the other one |
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Taz
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| biggus wrote: | It's not gone... I thought you could still hang for treason?
Which is exactly why anti terror laws should be changed to "treason" |
Doubt it will ever be used for that though, you can get off in 5 years for murder!
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wivvy's dad
Cabbage club member #3
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Why are you asking the question? |
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Cueball
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Joined: 21 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose this can be looked at from two points of view.
There will always be the relegious view point which dictates that no man has the right to decide who lives and dies and;
the revenge view point which dictates "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth!"
I take the religiuos view point on this one.
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Cueball
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Taz
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| wivvy's dad wrote: | | Why are you asking the question? |
Why not?
Is there adeqaute deterrent for someone contemplating murder NOT to commit that crime knowing they could be out in a few years?
How many people may be alive today had their murderer known they may die for their offence?
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biggus
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Taz wrote: | | wivvy's dad wrote: | | Why are you asking the question? |
Why not?
Is there adeqaute deterrent for someone contemplating murder NOT to commit that crime knowing they could be out in a few years?
How many may be alive had their murderer known they may die for their offence? |
There was something I heard on the radio a while back on a phone in when they were talking about a "murder gene" apparently, there is a genetic pre-disposition to committing crimes, this gene is from memory in 20% of the general population and 80% of the prision population. I am not sure whether this is factual or not.
Do we want to return to the situation where someone who didn't pull the trigger gets hung? Ever heard of Derek Bentley? He hung for saying "Let him have it" which was deemed by the judge to mean shoot him, however, his family etc argued that he meant give up, let him have the gun, Bentley hung, I don't think the guy who pulled the trigger did.
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There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
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Taz
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| biggus wrote: | | Taz wrote: | | wivvy's dad wrote: | | Why are you asking the question? |
Why not?
Is there adeqaute deterrent for someone contemplating murder NOT to commit that crime knowing they could be out in a few years?
How many may be alive had their murderer known they may die for their offence? |
There was something I heard on the radio a while back on a phone in when they were talking about a "murder gene" apparently, there is a genetic pre-disposition to committing crimes, this gene is from memory in 20% of the general population and 80% of the prision population. I am not sure whether this is factual or not.
Do we want to return to the situation where someone who didn't pull the trigger gets hung? Ever heard of Derek Bentley? He hung for saying "Let him have it" which was deemed by the judge to mean shoot him, however, his family etc argued that he meant give up, let him have the gun, Bentley hung, I don't think the guy who pulled the trigger did. |
Of course no one should die if they did not pull the trigger, the person who pulled the trigger should. With DNA being 99.999999999 percent reliable (or so we are told) and there is that proof against the murderer, what is there to argue? There is the argument in that would they have pulled the trigger knowing they would die if they was caught.
The argument for Terrorism is ok until the numpty comitting the crime has a rucksack full of explosive that doesn't go off and was prepared to die for their cause anyway, death penalty in that instance is not a deterrent.
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Cueball
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Very appropriate point Biggus. How many innocent people have died before? It has only been in say the last decade to decade and half that investigation techniques and technologies have been improved. What happened in the days before DNA? Many people paid for crimes they did not commit!
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The Mouse
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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In all seriousness I think it should come back. With the technological advances with regard to Forensics, DNA, CCTV etc etc mistakes that have happened in the past with innocent people swinging should not happen the way they did.
If it's absolutely 100% definite that that person did it, then yes, they should be hung, or shot, or electruced, or whatever
Or failing that they should be put away forever, which obviously opens a completely new topic about the cost of keeping someone incarcerated for life. It costs more to the tax payer to keep a prisoner in jail each day than it would putting them up in a central London 5 star hotel.
Lets face it, who WOULDN'T like to see Ian Huntley swinging from a rope???
| The Mouse wrote: | | I'm going to vote no on this one and yes on the other one |
Just to show i've not gone mad, this is what that quote is about http://www.boxhill.co.uk/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21871 as it disappears off down the list  |
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biggus
illitterātus
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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Location: Hotel California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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An alternative, would perhaps give the option to those found guilty of life meaning life... or would you like to be executed instead?
I agree with cueball on the "religious" point of view, although I am far from religious.
Two "wrongs" very rarely make a right. And bearing in mind that if it is true what I said about the so called "murder gene" then just because murder is a socially unacceptable form of mental illness should a murderer hang but a socially acceptable alcoholic not? Ok extreme view... but... a lot of the crimes that "people" want the death penalty reintroduced for stem from some sort of mental illness - is being mentally ill a crime - discuss....
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There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand Binary and those who don't
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Phoenix
'Phenis the tree hugger'
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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cueball, Andjel and I have all lived in a country where there was the death penalty.
it is a fucking stupid idea, it is used by cowards, it does NOT work. a society governed by fear is not a healthy society. you want the death penalty ? Fuck off to Zimbabwe ! go to Kenya, Live in the middle east, or find a time machine and bugger off to the middle ages. If I had a penny for every stupid twat that thinks that this is the answer, or for every bloody petition i have been sent , or every facebook group that I have been invited to join, and every name is Van de Merwe, Van Heever, Du Toit, Steenkamp or sodding Groenewald. sorry Cueball if you are Afrikaans and if I'm generalising, i do see that you are opposed and so I am not meaning this to reflect you in any way if you are. but Fucking Pig Ignorance winds me up !
the death penalty has no place in a civilized or a thinking society !
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wivvy's dad
Cabbage club member #3
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Phoenix wrote: | cueball, Andjel and I have all lived in a country where there was the death penalty.
it is a fucking stupid idea, it is used by cowards, it does NOT work. a society governed by fear is not a healthy society. you want the death penalty ? Fuck off to Zimbabwe ! go to Kenya, Live in the middle east, or find a time machine and bugger off to the middle ages. If I had a penny for every stupid twat that thinks that this is the answer, or for every bloody petition i have been sent , or every facebook group that I have been invited to join, and every name is Van de Merwe, Van Heever, Du Toit, Steenkamp or sodding Groenewald. sorry Cueball if you are Afrikaans and if I'm generalising, i do see that you are opposed and so I am not meaning this to reflect you in any way if you are. but Fucking Pig Ignorance winds me up !
the death penalty has no place in a civilized or a thinking society ! |
Well said sir |
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Cueball
Learner
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Phoenix,
Not to worry, I am an Italian who grew up in SA so no offiece taken. I did marry n boetrjie though but we share the same view on this (although I had not conveyed my point of view as passionately as you have conveyed yours.
Have a safe trip back mate and we'll catch up when you back here.
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Cueball
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Taz
MotoGP Racer
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 3995
Location: As far away from reality as possible
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Phoenix wrote: | cueball, Andjel and I have all lived in a country where there was the death penalty.
it is a fucking stupid idea, it is used by cowards, it does NOT work. a society governed by fear is not a healthy society. you want the death penalty ? Fuck off to Zimbabwe ! go to Kenya, Live in the middle east, or find a time machine and bugger off to the middle ages. If I had a penny for every stupid twat that thinks that this is the answer, or for every bloody petition i have been sent , or every facebook group that I have been invited to join, and every name is Van de Merwe, Van Heever, Du Toit, Steenkamp or sodding Groenewald. sorry Cueball if you are Afrikaans and if I'm generalising, i do see that you are opposed and so I am not meaning this to reflect you in any way if you are. but Fucking Pig Ignorance winds me up !
the death penalty has no place in a civilized or a thinking society ! |
Nor should murder have a place in a civilised sociey but unfortunately it does and unfortunately those comitting the crimes have minimal deterrent not to consider making the crime in the first instance.
Does the majority of a law abiding society not have the right to have maximum protection against murderers?
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southernspeed
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Cueball wrote: | I suppose this can be looked at from two points of view.
There will always be the relegious view point which dictates that no man has the right to decide who lives and dies and;
the revenge view point which dictates "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth!"
I take the religiuos view point on this one. |
Wasn't it the church that burnt witches? Other religions stone people to death, even now.
I personally see no problem with the death penalty but the legal people need to get it right in the first place. Too many (probably guilty) people get off on a technicality, and don't even think about the repacusions of hanging Colin Stag!
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Cueball
Learner
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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yes, the burning of the witches, the inquisition etc, etc were a dark patch in the Church's history (not that I am church historian). I'd not like to stuck into a discussion about the finer points about organised relegion. What it comes down to at the end of the day is each and everybody's personal point of view.
I would, however, like to pose this question!
A man has committed murder, has stood trial, been convicted and sentenced to death. He is then executed by the "executioner." Is what the executioner has done not considered murder as well?
Is his "life taking" deed less wrong than the murderer and if so, by who'se great authority is it ordained that this form of life taking is not murder? Is it then not expected that the executed's family has the right to have the executioner executed?
Just some food for thought!
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Cueball
A bad day on the bike is still better than a good day at work! |
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Taz
MotoGP Racer
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Cueball wrote: | yes, the burning of the witches, the inquisition etc, etc were a dark patch in the Church's history (not that I am church historian). I'd not like to stuck into a discussion about the finer points about organised relegion. What it comes down to at the end of the day is each and everybody's personal point of view.
I would, however, like to pose this question!
A man has committed murder, has stood trial, been convicted and sentenced to death. He is then executed by the "executioner." Is what the executioner has done not considered murder as well?
Is his "life taking" deed less wrong than the murderer and if so, by who'se great authority is it ordained that this form of life taking is not murder? Is it then not expected that the executed's family has the right to have the executioner executed?
Just some food for thought! |
Not really since he/she would be carrying out their actions in accordance within the laws brought in by parliament.
I guess for a reasonable comparitve a murderer could be forced to watch Big Brother for the rest of their lives whilst in prison, they'd probably commit suicide anyway.
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Cueball
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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So who then should be held accountable for taking this persons's life?
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Cueball
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Taz
MotoGP Racer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Cueball wrote: | | So who then should be held accountable for taking this persons's life? |
The person who comitted murder, had they not comitted murder, they would be alive.
simples.
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Tusky
Pie Dipper
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Only if we can have it with sharia law 
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GSEX-SLAPPY
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| murder is wrong and should be punished accordingly ....sentenced to death is inadequate because it is momentry.......daily torture should be introduced .....i reckon theyd think twice about murder if they thought that for every living day for the rest of thier lives they would be subject to terrible pain to reflect the pain and torment they have left the remaining family in |
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Taz
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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57 percent yay
42 percent nay
You got lost in that 1 percent Slappy!
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Cueball
Learner
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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daily torture hey, Pinapple up the bum daily sounds about right!
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Cueball
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